Sharing Your Expertise in the Salesforce Ecosystem and Beyond

Okay.

Welcome to the second X Force webinar.

And we're happy to have Phil Weinmeister with us. Phil is many things. I can't tell you all of them, but I will let him explain to you all the many things he is. And today he's gonna talk about sharing his expertise, how he shared his expertise in the Salesforce ecosystem and more generally, how he shares his expertise in more broadly. So without further ado, here's Phil. Hi, Phil.

Hey, how are you doing today, Leonard?

Good, you win the microphone prize today, I have to say.

Thank you. That was my primary goal, so that's good.

You have a very deep voice in that microphone too. It's just I got to get one of those is what I'm coming back.

My wife has told me that my alter ego is a game show host, so maybe that's a good thing.

All right, Drew Carey. Let's hear what you got to say. Tell us a little bit about yourself, all the many things that you are.

Yeah, glad to be here today and thanks everyone for joining us.

Really hope you guys get some value out of this chat.

So yeah, I live in Powder Springs, Georgia. I've been in this area for about fifteen years now.

Time flies. And I've been in the Salesforce ecosystem for about ten years at this point. And it definitely has been a career changer, a game changer for me.

And from pretty early on, I've been looking to share and teach, we're going to be talking about that a lot today. Just in terms of where I'm at right now, I'm the VP of product for Seven Summits headquartered in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I travel up there a good bit, not during COVID times, and then I do various things. I mean, I lead our product team.

We build lightning accelerators on the platform primarily for community cloud implementations.

That's my main function at Seven Summits and some of the things that I've been involved with that I'm sure we'll talk about.

I have authored a few books about Salesforce. Recently just completed my second Pluralsight course also on Salesforce communities and just starting a third one.

And also I pretty regularly, again, during non COVID times do a lot of presentations and demos, just helping people to understand how to get the most out of Salesforce and how to know what to look for, what's coming out and tips and tricks, all that good stuff.

Cool, well, let's start with a little more. Let's dig in a little more with talk about the Salesforce community first and then get to your books and everything. You're an MVP, Salesforce MVP. You wanna tell everybody what that is and how you got that?

Sure, yeah.

Salesforce has a program called Salesforce MVPs. It's been around for a while now.

I would guess probably about ten years, give or take a few years.

Essentially the program is to recognize evangelists of Salesforce. It's kind of how I put it. That's not Salesforce's language per se but there are a number of people out there across different roles, whether it's business analysts, administrators, developers, TAs, project managers, a lot of different roles that are extremely passionate and knowledgeable about Salesforce.

These people really just as an extension of who they are, are out there contributing, sharing in various ways. Salesforce has a program to recognize that.

And a lot of people aspire to become an MVP, which is a great thing.

There is no secret formula to becoming an MVP. Again, really a recognition of those individuals who are already doing a lot in the community.

But there are definitely things that you can look at across MVPs and see some common patterns.

Overall, are individuals who really bring a lot of new content out into the ecosystem And that's something I've done for a while. So I was first selected in, oh, it was five years ago.

So twenty fifteen, it was pretty exciting at the time.

Definitely a big deal to me and I've been renewed five times now, which is really cool.

But yeah, at the time I had been blogging and I had written my first book. That was my first really big contribution to the ecosystem.

Like I said, there's no secret formula. They don't really tell you, here is why we selected you. I would imagine that the book had something to do with it, but yeah, it's really an honor and it's cool because they do provide us with some opportunities and definitely an elevated platform to share. So I've had opportunities to do some presentations around the country that I probably wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.

And I've had a number of people come up to me after the presentations and let me know that they got a lot of value out of it. Really helpful. So that's always extremely rewarding.

That's cool. So was your first book the one on communities or the one on clicks not code?

Yeah, back in twenty fifteen I came out with practical Salesforce development without code.

So that was a non communities book, just general platform. Now the world of clicks not code or declarative development has just absolutely exploded in the past five years.

And it should have because Salesforce has invested so much into these awesome tools on the platform.

But back then, I mean, workflow was still a real primary tool. When I wrote my book, Process Builder didn't even exist at the time.

Actually came out the very next release after my book came out, which at the time was a little bit frustrating that, oh, that just came out. But actually, when I talk to people about it, it worked out for the best because it's almost better not to cover something that's brand new that's going to transform so rapidly because if I had included it, it would have just probably not even looked like Process Builder does after a year or two.

So yeah, that was twenty fifteen and it was pretty interesting how that actually happened.

I had a coworker. I worked at EDL Consulting. Some of you may have heard of EDL Consulting. That is the company out of which Cloud Craze came, which was later acquired by Salesforce and is now Salesforce B2B Commerce.

Also then the remainder of EDL was purchased by Simplest. So a number of you out there may be familiar with the company, but while I was there, I had an individual really encouraged me to start sharing out more because he noticed I was really into teaching and sharing and encouraged me to start doing more. I started blogging regularly and that's when an editor from Apress reached out to me.

I really wasn't sure if it was a joke email or a prank or something like that. He said, Yeah, feel free to call me to make sure this is a real thing.

He was with A Press, which is part of Springer Nature, and he had been talking to someone in the technology space and realized, Hey, we need to have some books on this platform called Salesforce. They had zero books on Salesforce.

True thing, yeah.

Yeah, reached out to me and I was like, I didn't feel qualified at the time, but I couldn't turn that down. That was such an awesome opportunity and now to a degree the rest is history. So yeah, that was the first book back in twenty fifteen.

So I think a lot of people when they think about writing a book are super intimidated about just how much work it would be to write a book that you have to have some kind of a strategy. So what was your strategy to write the book to fit it in with your busy career and you've got a big family and all that?

Yeah, that's a great question And I failed to mention this before and they're a huge part of my life. So that was a mistake on my part. But yeah, I have a lovely wife and four children. So people are always shocked when I tell them that, especially while I'm writing a book or something like that, because they're like, how do you do that? And I think, yeah, it's a good question. I'd love to talk a little bit about that because whether you're writing a book or doing something else that's extracurricular, that is a good question to answer is how do you balance this all out? How do you do all of it and have a life and not just be consumed by work plus more work?

So when I started again, I hadn't done anything like that before, so it was new to me.

Was a little bit intimidated for sure, but I also was very passionate about it and I think that's really important.

I mean, today there are a lot of avenues for writing. You can definitely self publish and things like that. And that's totally fine. It's a legitimate way to do it.

But however you do it, want to be extremely passionate about it. So you care enough to put the time in is one thing. If you're a little bit indifferent like, oh, that'd be kind of cool. It's probably not going to happen. So what you're passionate about.

I was fairly disciplined about it. I came up with this, my own schedule to break down, okay chapters here is my timeline of some of them depending on how long they were. I give myself more or less time for each chapter and I really try to stick to that. That was a key thing. Writing the book took about eight months in total. So definitely a large investment.

Some days there were days where I didn't write and there were days where I spent seven or eight hours. I mean, were Saturdays and Sundays where I took most of the day to write.

In addition to that, I would get up early, stay up late.

Early morning, late at night, do a little bit of writing but the key there is to just be persistent and regular and consistent really is the right word. So you have to stay on it. It's kind of like with anything if you come up with excuses to put it off, it's just going to become too burdensome. So I did a good job staying on it as I went through and delivered it on time by the deadline, everything like that.

And it worked out pretty well. Yeah, I communicated very, I tried to communicate very openly with my family and my wife to make sure that we're really in that together. I think that's important as well. It wasn't like, hey, I'm going off to do this thing.

Just kind of give me my time.

There were times where I really needed to get stuff done, but my wife is really supportive there as well. So that made a big difference too.

Great, well, so what I'm hearing is there's nothing magic. You just have to stick with it and don't think it's going to happen overnight.

Yeah, then I would say the other thing is I definitely experienced challenges like writer's block. It's a little maybe writer's block with a technical book that's not quite the right term, but when I started a new chapter, of course I had an outline and I had thoughts, but starting a new chapter and then going through these mental exercises once again, where I would think, first of all, what do I really have to say about this?

Even though I had a lot to say.

Does anybody really want to read this?

That's something that if you're going to be creating content, whether it's an online course or a book or even a blog post, think you have to put that out of your mind.

It's true that not every blog post is read by thousands of people. I mean, sure, there'll be some that maybe don't resonate with people or the content is common. Fine. That's fine.

But you have to kind of get past the worry that, well, else has already said this or nobody really will care because you can't get past that hurdle. Obviously you'll never be able to share your content. So that was something that I had to go through. It's really funny to look back because at the time there was way less content out there than there is today.

I mean, there's probably ten times, twenty times more content over the past five years just about Salesforce and the technology.

But at the time I looked at actually the help documentation as like this, so prolific. I thought there are so many help articles out there.

Is this really going to help?

Obviously it absolutely did. So I just had to push through that. So that's a good point. That's something that I would definitely encourage people to think about is if you're blogging, you're presenting something like that, you just kind of have to go for it and not be too worried that it's going to be a home run with everyone. It may or may not be really successful in terms of helping people but you're not going to be able to do anything if you don't just go forward.

Sure, sure. So let's talk a little bit about the content of your books.

You've picked two interesting topics as far as I'm concerned. One is, and I'm interested in both of them. First, let's talk a little bit about clicks, not code development. Do you have a thought as to, I don't know about you, but I've come across a number of Salesforce orgs, where there's been a lot of code, not clicks development to do things that can easily be done with the Salesforce interface. And my personal thing is that's because you let developers go into your Salesforce org without really understanding Salesforce. Do you have some insights into how as Salesforce professionals people can try to encourage more declarative or clicks not code programming?

Yeah, that's a really good question. There's definitely a lot to that.

I'll be the first to say while I've written a book on declarative development and I personally don't write code myself.

Customization and code on the Salesforce platform can be extremely powerful and they're critical. There are solutions that absolutely require code and there are no clicks that will satisfy those specific requirements. Huge fan of that. But you bring up a good point, which is that there may be challenges at times understanding the platform, how powerful the declarative aspect is.

I think if you look at it this way, if you're a developer from an outside platform, it's understandable if you come into the Salesforce world and you think, great, I'm going to learn Apex.

I'm going to learn how to develop lighting components. And you really focus on that side of it and see it as, I'm a developer, I'm going to stay on that technical side. And I think that's a bad move to come in thinking that way.

To your point, there are a lot of solutions that can be delivered without any code and a lot of solutions that should be delivered without any code. You don't want to add code if you don't need to, if it's not actually bringing additional value in terms of functionality or performance or something like that. I think that's really important. When I wrote the book, my intended target wasn't just you know, the new person in Salesforce or an admin. Sure. That was a main consideration, but also someone who would be a developer like that, who's new to development on Salesforce to understand, Hey, make sure you're aware of all these tools. A developer, while they may not use process builder a lot or workflow or flow, they should be aware of it.

Should, and really a solid Salesforce developer would know not only the code side, but that other side as well. Then they might not be the ones to build a process. Let's say maybe there's somebody else in their organization to do that, but they don't look at it like, well, I'm a developer, so it's going to be code. That's what I do.

It's more like what is the best solution on the platform? And I will mention on NameDrop someone who's very, very well known in the ecosystem is David Liu. He works for Google. He's a Salesforce MVP and he's just done a lot.

He has online courses.

He's pretty much everywhere. You'll see him at events and stuff like that. Well, he's done some really interesting work around analysis of which tool should I use. He's done some comparisons of code versus declarative and which tool and some interesting analysis there. I like his approach because he basically says, What's the right solution? And then applies it.

I think that's the right way to go at it.

I'm going switch over to communities now, which I think is a newer Salesforce product. We do have a question from the audience, but first I just want to get your general introduction to why did you get interested in communities and what do you think the strengths are communities? I think what I hear from some people is I can just build a website. I don't have to pay all that money for Salesforce communities. So first question, how'd you get into it? Second is why use communities over WordPress or some other cheaper, perhaps cheaper solution?

Yeah, great question. Communities started in twenty thirteen, so it's been a little while, but lightning communities were introduced just a few years back. Now they're the norm.

Up until now, the enterprise communities were built on Visualforce and there still are probably a number of communities out there that are Visualforce communities, no doubt. But in terms of where things are headed now, lightning is the focus.

Personally, I love communities because it's all about creating a unique experience.

Thinking back, if you look back a few years when communities first started, then more than ever, had really limited presentation or display in terms of what the internal Salesforce org looked like.

It's come a long way since then, but basically it was what it was.

It wasn't very attractive. Now when communities first launched, I was saying, other than Visualforce Communities, they weren't the most beautiful either, but they've come a long way. The ability to create a really beautiful digital experience is something that I love. Mean, I was younger, used to do a lot just in general with websites. I've always been interested in web experiences.

So that's, it's pretty interesting. It's neat to be able to get away from the Salesforce look and feel and really create something that a client loves. The other thing is, if you're looking for, and this is a segue into the second question, if you want to open up Salesforce to an external user, that being a partner or a customer, you have limited options.

You're not going to bring those users into the internal org. Of course, that just doesn't make sense. It would be expensive and for security reasons that would never make sense. So that's not something that's recommended.

So you're going to have to do something externally. And then like you said, there are some other options.

You can go, if you're talking cheap, you can go with, yeah, build a website on whatever. You can build a Weebly or WordPress website.

You can go big too and you can go with, let's say Adobe Experience Manager or something like that to build something beautiful.

The real value of a Salesforce community, I think, lies in the fact that you have such power at your fingertips. You have all of the CRM data available to you with no integration.

Then because of that, can leverage all the tools and all the logic, all the metadata that you have in your org. If you think about, great, you can spin up a nice looking website quickly on some of their platform, but then you're going to have to build your custom integration. I know Salesforce acquired MuleSoft and of course integration has come a long ways over the past few years, but still that's not something anyone desires is I really want a highly custom heavy integration to manage over a long period of time.

The fact that you can leverage all of the standard platform aspects like with sharing and things like that when it comes to security and visibility, it's really powerful.

There are definitely cheaper options, but if you want to fully leverage Salesforce and provide that data to your external users, it's hard to justify going around it unless you have some specific requirement is basically what I'd say. Now, if you're looking at like a public website with no aspect of personalized authentication or personalized data, that gets into a little different area because in that case you might still be leveraging some of the CRM data, but it's not going to be as valuable. You're not taking advantage of it as much.

Actually mentioning public communities, If you guys weren't aware, in summer 'twenty, major changes coming. Most of you will see summer 'twenty in the next few days. It's around July seventeenth, eighteenth.

What guest users can do in a Salesforce community will be restricted even more. And there are reasons for that. But bottom line is what I'm saying, on the public community side, you're not getting as much value out of it, but anything that's going to require login or my account information or my products, anything like that where you have something personalized to you, you just remove so much time and money managing integrations and custom functionality. So it's pretty cool stuff.

Yeah, and in that vein, we had a question here from Charlie in the audience.

Phil, thanks for sharing. Have you used the mobile publisher service to make customer community into a mobile app? In mobile app, do the screen flows still work? What are the common problems you have encountered, assuming means with mobile?

Yeah, so we've worked with mobile publisher a few times at Seven Summits. I've done some research posted blog post about it. It's somewhat high level but you can check that out.

That's on the Seven Summits blog. If you go to 7summitsinc dot com.

In terms of flow, I will confirm. I can't remember right now if flow, I believe it's supported just like anything else. There aren't a lot of exceptions when it comes to mobile publisher. It's not like, well, it works, but these ten things just won't render, don't work in your mobile publisher app. For the most part, everything's there. There are a couple of things that are coming along. I'd assume yes, but I'll follow-up.

So I'm pretty easy to find online. If you want to find me after, I can confirm that. But I assume, yeah, that's something that's flow would be supported there.

We're going to audience questions, I'll ask anonymous asks, good old anonymous. How do you find your niche area in Salesforce? The right intersection between the demand for your talent and what you like to do?

That's a good question.

So this individual's saying, they're thinking of two aspects here, demand what you like to do, kind of maybe a little bit of a Venn diagram here and looking for that overlap.

And Actually, it's funny because there's something came up with a diagram once, somewhere buried in all my notes that shows something similar to that. Here's where you would want to focus on if you're trying to become an expert in an area. I would say there is such demand in the Salesforce ecosystem in general, which is a unique thing that there's almost no area that would be something that wouldn't generate some interest. So you can almost to a degree say, you're not that don't worry about demand so much.

Again, Salesforce ecosystem. Now, if you're coming from a different platform or something like that, sure. That's something to look at. And yeah, there are legacy areas of Salesforce and some things that writing blogs about classic interface.

Yeah, it might not be the future, but even that really, there are still a lot of users on that. So point is, I would say don't worry too much about demand. And I would just focus the most on your balance of what you're passionate about and look for some validation, some external validation that you have some expertise, if that makes sense.

I guess what I'm saying is, you do have to have some knowledge that's valuable. So it's one thing to be passionate. You could love service cloud but you do have to have something unique to add.

You can run that by some other people ask them, hey, here's what I'm thinking about bringing to the table. But the biggest thing is just be interested and passionate about it. That'll be the best fit. Because if start focusing on an area that maybe isn't something that you care all that much about, it's just going to become a drag over time.

For me, what's really cool is, and this isn't really a coincidence, but I focus on communities and I work for seven summits and we focus on the main product at Salesforce that we're dealing with is community cloud.

And so my day job and then kind of my, what I do ecosystem is all related. So that's another thing to think about. There's an area that you really love and you're passionate about.

There are a lot of careers in the Salesforce ecosystem. So if you can overlap those things, then definitely try to do that. If you're doing a very niche specific job on the Salesforce platform that doesn't align with something that you really care about that you're an expert in, again, that'll just make it harder because there may be times when your company would see, have a lot of focus in an area that maybe is a distraction from what they do. Hopefully that'll help, but that's a way to really make it a win for everyone. Your company will be super excited that all your content is related to what they're doing.

You're passionate about it.

And trust me, there'll be some demand somewhere.

Yeah, I think that's a great answer. So you've done some videos on Pluralsight or some, I guess we call them classes. Can tell us a little bit about that? Then there's somebody from the audience that has some questions about it.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's pretty interesting.

As we talked about already, I've written a couple books on Salesforce and that's a very specific medium.

In the technology world, maybe having a paperback book isn't necessarily what you'd expect, but I've actually been surprised by how many people have come up to me and told me that they love having a physical book. But Pluralsight obviously is a great platform. It's kind of a natural fit for teaching and sharing expertise because it's digital, it's easily accessible, and definitely Pluralsight has doubled down on the Salesforce content.

I don't know when their first Salesforce course was published, but they have quite a bit more now than they used to.

That's been a great experience. I've been a part of, I've authored two courses. One is a play by play course that is really run by someone named Dawn Robbins.

And that's like a conversational style course. So there's definitely a lot of prep that goes into it, not nearly as much as a regular course, but it ends up being a conversation. What we do is we tackle a real world business problem and we solve it. We talk through it and we solve it.

And so that whole series is pretty interesting. I don't know how many he has out there now. I think upwards of fifty and they're pretty interesting. So you can check out Salesforce Play by Play with Don Robbins for that.

And then I just published a course which is more a traditional Pluralsight course.

Yeah, definitely a lot of work, very different from the book, but also overlapping as well. That was, it was pretty cool to do that. I had to, at the end of the day, it's the same general idea I want to bring.

I want to communicate how to do a certain thing in a way that resonates with people, that helps them and enables them, equips them to do their job better or to do a new job.

A lot of that overlaps there, but instead of just kind of thinking and putting my thoughts onto paper, it's a lot about creating diagrams and visualizing material. And I have a lot of diagrams in the book, but again, it's definitely a different medium.

Of course, the audio recording and all that's a little bit different as well.

You got to make sure your energy's up and you had your Wheaties that morning, but that was very rewarding. I have a course that just came out and there's a good bit of material, about two hours worth. I am starting actually my next course today, literally today. So I do see the question there. How much time have invested for each one hour video? What's your advice for someone who's planning to make videos? Yeah, great question.

So Pluralsight will say their guidance is you spend about forty hours per hour that you produce. I think that's reasonable.

I think, and I think going forward in my second course, I think that'll be accurate and maybe even slightly less than that because now I have the hang of it. I probably spent a little more than that on the first one.

I probably spent, I didn't track it all, but maybe a hundred hours and I produced two hours of work.

And that's a lot, obviously, when you have a full time job to fit that into nights and weekends.

But yeah, thing as writing a book. You'll want to be disciplined about it.

Don't push off because of things that come up. You got to just keep on track and get through.

Pluralsight does a great job of breaking down, and you're a part of this when you author the course, breaking it down into small chunks. You have a course which is split into modules that make sense with the overall content. And then within those you have these clips. The clips are about two to five, two to six minutes each. So you really focus on those you know, at a time which helps a lot. Know, if you're looking at doing thirty minutes of recorded material at a time that would be overwhelming. So yeah, hopefully that helps.

So in terms of, so you have one, you have this one on one communities course out and you also have another communities, course, the one that you did all the prep for and the diagrams and everything. What of all the content, I assume that's comparable to what the subject is basically the same as your book of all the content on Pluralsight. How many hours do you think would equal a book roughly? How many hours of Pluralsight? How many Pluralsight courses would equal the content in your book? I don't know if that question makes sense.

Yeah, it does well. So I worked with Pluralsight to actually come up with the curriculum for the Community Cloud Path, involves four courses.

I'm authoring two of those.

I have a colleague who's actually doing one of the four.

I'll do my best to answer that, but the book is really as comprehensive as I could be. I try to include everything possible in there.

Basically the three courses, there are three on declarative items and one on customization. Those three together are comparable to what's in the book. There's probably a little bit more in the book because I could kind of structure it however I wanted. But yeah, I'd say three to four courses equates to what's basically in the book there. Now on the declarative side, which I haven't done any plural site on the declarative side, that book, so I wrote a second edition of that book, which came out last year, and that was quite a beast. It actually came in over five hundred pages, which was That's quite a bit for a tech book, but that one would be a few more courses.

Yeah, I pretty much try to cover everything possible on the Salesforce platform in that book, which was a lot Well, then you got to bring in another edition, right, with all the new stuff coming out of the box and Yeah, that one I added.

There was so much that came in over the past five years, like process builder and flow has changed so much that it required a lot of just net new, but yeah, then you can keep things updated hopefully without changing too much. But that's the good thing about the Salesforce platform with its three releases a year is that there's always fresh content. Yeah, that makes it **** ** a physical book author, but that's okay.

Again, that's why there's so much content out there is because there's so much new stuff that they're creating.

Jason has asked the question of whether Seven Summits does full platform consulting or if you only do community solutions.

Yeah, so the way we message is we do community led multi cloud solutions. So the answer is yes. Although definitely we are very focused on community. So it just kind of depends on what you're looking for. Of course, you can reach out to me directly if you want. But yeah, we do multi cloud solutions for sure.

We're just best known for some of the amazing experiences we create through communities.

Well, we have a couple minutes left. Is there something else you wanted to talk about or I know that you were probably do some other things in addition to writing books and plural site and being an MVP.

Yeah, just want to touch on sure. Know, I really wanted to make sure anyone who attended or listens to the recording leaves feeling encouraged and inspired to share what they have.

And so just to recap a little bit of that, first of all, you have to start small. And I think blogging is an excellent way to do that because you can go grab a WordPress site, a free version and just start blogging, come up with a topic, come up with one specific thing that you solved on the Salesforce platform and spend some time and make it a quality post. It's not about quantity at all. Really put your heart into that. Maybe you write it over a month. That's fine.

Share that out and start and then leverage social media as well. Social media is huge in the Salesforce ecosystem.

Get a Twitter account if you don't have that, share it on LinkedIn and drip it out there over a few days.

And this is a pattern to follow, I think for some period of time. This is a great way to put content out there and what'll happen over time is you'll have some followers, some subscribers and they'll start sharing out your stuff. And that gets really exciting. When you see that not only certain people you know are being equipped and enabled through this, but that they're actually sharing it out further, which is really, really cool.

So blogging is a great way to start and then consider these other mediums as well.

Can record short videos, leverage YouTube if you want.

Some people do podcasts, that's a bigger one.

But it doesn't have to be as big as, Oh, I'm going to write a book or publish a course on Pluralsight. These are big things. I'd say start small, be passionate about what that is and focus on quality, focus on value. And trust me, you might feel like this is something that has been covered before.

There's a lot of material on it, but if you have a unique voice and you communicate well and you solve a problem that others can relate to, it'll have a lot of value. So, you know, there are a lot of smart people in the Salesforce ecosystem who are really motivated. So I would just encourage you to start there and see where things go and just look for opportunities to teach, to share. If you have an opportunity to present at your own company, take advantage of that and yeah, always reach out.

You can always reach out to someone like me or other Salesforce MVPs are happy to share as well. So yeah, I just want to encourage you there to think small and just continue that. It's kind of a long process, but if you have something interesting to say, think it'll definitely get picked up eventually in the ecosystem.

Great, well, that's a great finish. Appreciate your time so much today, Phil. Thanks participating.

Thanks to all the people who participated. Want to let everybody know about our next webinar. Enjoyed this one.

We're having some Salesforce summer twenty twenty release highlights. We've got two longtime Salesforce consultants, Payush Singhal and Bill Appleton. Payush is from HIC Global and Bill is from a consulting firm called Metazoa.

That'll be the thirtieth of July and everybody who's participated in this webinar will be getting a reminder of that with a link to sign up if you're interested. So thanks again for participating. Thanks to Phil, and we hope to see you at the next webinar.

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